Phase One OOC

[watchoutsamusishere]

Just in case there is some interest, I'd better put this up. I'm interested, and I'm pretty sure if no one else is I'm going to just do it by myself. But that's not as fun.

[Rex Apium]

I know Coty told you I've come up with something for it, I'm just sort of in a limbo where it's concerned. I have a character who's, for the most part, in the late beginning stages of conception, but my qualifiers of what's finished and what isn't are slightly different than some people's. She has a first name, color palette and basic nationality - which makes her fairly close to visually complete. Her personality is where I'm straying a bit, and that's mostly because I need to finish hammering out religion based societal expectations to get a feel for the type of world she would have grown up in to really get a feel for something more than just the "She's serious and very religious" that I have right now.

[watchoutsamusishere]

Well, basically I am going with Europe in the early to late dark ages. That's my ideal. But I don't want to restrict it to white folk. I'm happy with other nationalities as well. I sort of want help in making all of this work because then it's our world, not my world.

There is a King. Land is owned by the King and given to lords with hereditary titles, or in some cases, non-hereditary titles gained through favour and war.

Most cities are in by mayors who have been elected by merchant guilds. Naturally, they would defer to nobility, but the nobility don't really run the cities as they're busy running their own holdings and the commoners/serfs therein. There are exceptions.

The church is a sticking point. You cannot have a mediaeval period without religion; that's how ingrained Catholicism was in that era. In the beginning the church had its own land and had people work it, but it didn't fight the kingdom for power through politics. They had their own stuff, appointed by kings who wanted to ensure it. It wasn't until later that the inquisition rose. I would like to see the church as a good thing in this rp, rather than the evil it later represented in European history. It'd be a nice change.

For the most part commoners and serfs who worked on church-owned land were very well looked after.

But I did have a thought about a religious order of warriors whose job it is to go around capturing bandits and whatnot. A holy writ, so to speak, which means most commoners if not all would support and aid them because almost everyone in this time period was devoutly faithful.

Nuns and Monks are the most highly educated people in this time period, oddly enough, even more than Nobles. They can almost all read and write and do so, cherishing knowledge and information. This is long before the church wanted to destroy science and instead had vast libraries.

In the same way, tradesmen went to university to become journeymen and masters. A commoner could take service with a noble to learn skills.

The merchant guilds at the time fully supported numerous, small and profitable businesses. The guild was to ensure that everyone could make money and feed their families. Again, this is before people were driven out of business. The only thing is you had to be part of the guild to ply your trade, so like a trade union.

In many ways, the dark ages were a siesta compared to what came later.

All of this stuff is changeable. I just want to give an idea.

[watchoutsamusishere]

No magic.


And being a mercenary is definitely a line of work. I'm not sure you'd make a living as a bounty hunter, but as a sell sword who specialises in retrieval, sure. I always imagined the church would only send agents against very specific sorts of people. There is the king's justice and then there is church justice. The church at this point is definitely into self-flagellation and whipping people, but as a rule are more lenient than the king. But they would only be involved with matters of sin and redemption, not punishment. It was a crazy system, but it worked.

[Rex Apium]

So this is basically "not-Europe". I can dig it.

I was thinking about it a bit more, and with what I've done for the religion already it would make more sense that it wasn't the primary religion for this region, rather a religion for a specific country. When I had designed it I placed in mind that it would be for a specific country, and one that was somewhat more isolated geographically to allow the worship of their god to progress the way it has. At this point in time, the religion is so deeply ingrained in the politics of this country (as in the one made for this religion, and not the one where the thread is taking place) it's a theocracy. It's entirely possible that it's an off-shoot of the primary religion of this land and some <insert amount of time here> years ago broke off from the primary religion. More Ishmael and Isaac in the sense of "this is a different religion, but it isn't". That way you can keep the religion you have going on and I can keep mine, but we can still weave them together in a way that it still works. It has some extreme indoctrination, but there's nothing stopping said religion from sending their ordained peoples into other countries as emissaries to try and spread their worship.

I did base a lot of the doctrines and whatnot on Roman Catholicism, but a lot of what I was using was my own knowledge since I was raised in that religion... lol. It was specifically designed that when you look deep into it, there's darkness there, but as most people don't look deep into it; all they see is the good the church does. My notes are sporadic and mostly in my head, but I can explain how it's been designed and some of the primary principles.

[watchoutsamusishere]

I'm fine with however you want to do it, Rex Apium. I don't see why their can't be different ideals and theologies within the same religion. Lord knows there are enough in the real world. If you want it to be from a different area then that's perfectly fine, too. We don't have to build an entire world, just enough to make it work and then fill in the rest as we go. Otherwise it's heaps of planning and not much writing.


Smithing is traditionally weapons and armour. Fletchers make arrows, bowyers make bows. That said, the people who make weapons would probably be able to do all of those things to a greater or lesser extent.


You can have a caterers guild, but that'd be restricted a lot because every noble has his own cooks and staff. It could work within a town, but in a holding itself, you definitely employ serfs to do it for you.


There is no weapon's guild. Commoners, as a rule, didn't wield swords, or know how to use them. That's a very knightly thing. Handling broad-swords and shields, spears and what not are what warriors do, and the warrior class are knights. In order to learn that stuff you have to take service with a noble. A local knight, a local baron, the king, a duke, whatever. Commoners would be able to use bows and staves and weapons of the peasant class, but serious hardware is for the knights and their men-at-arms.  There is no reason a commoner couldn't learn how to use it, but I don't want to make a guild out of it. We don't want an army of armed peasants. Otherwise everyone is a sell sword and mercenary.


I am definitely okay with a notice board. For specific jobs and trades in service. I don't see why that wouldn't be acceptable.


Remember that almost everyone in this world is earning money. Anyone who farms the land of a noble is being paid for it, although not much, and they're allowed to run cattle on the land and also cut down timber for firewood depending on their deal. The expression "commoner" comes from the idea of common land, which is land owned by one person, who gives rights to others to use it for specific things. The church is definitely more liberal in what they allow on their land and their people are paid better and live in more comfort. At least at the time they did. Their land comes from the crown because the Kings of these days were highly religious and wanted to be right with the lord.


Common women are also considered the equal of men in every way, it's only the noble women who are restricted in that sense. Common women have to strive and struggle just the same as their male counterparts so they are just as hard and strong. 

[Rex Apium]

Different ideals and theologies within the same religion work as well. As I said before, I designed it with a specific country in mind, more as a way to not step on anyone's toes or force someone into something they don't want than anything else.

The religion itself is heavily focused around ritualized bloodletting as a way to remove sin from the body. It's a very distinct way of going about things and I didn't want to come running in and say "YES BUT IT HAS TO BE LIKE THIS" when that may not be something that ~everyone~ is okay with. Especially because bloodletting was more of a Mayan thing than it was a European thing. It's been fabricated as a very extreme religion, and again, designed in a way that doesn't force players to follow it. Everything is ritualized, sanctified, yadda yadda yadda.

An extreme form of one particular part of holy literature could have caused an offshoot like this, I suppose... give it enough time to grow in power and influence and you have yourself a weird little location. Actually, it's in the barebones enough that it could be regional instead of a different country. Splinter group of "The Religion" that lives off in Fucksville and takes things a little too seriously. But they produce some people really good at killing others... and medicine. I'd figured a religion so focused on the body would have some different approaches to medicine, or at the very least take it seriously. Leeches would make the most sense, herbal coagulants.... I'm spitballing and that isn't terribly helpful, now is it.

Anyways. Character idea is a lady who kills people for the church/her church/religion/whatever. Does rituals before killings because of religious literature. Killings are sanctioned for whatever reason. Blood is a thing.

[watchoutsamusishere]

Sounds fine. Have you considered maybe the cardinal sins thing? You could have each assassin consecrated to a certain sin, and punishing those guilty of that sin? Thus sanctified by the church? You can do it as part of a different country. I'm cool with that. I know there are already in existence some ways of atoning for sins that I think are insane. It'll fit in with the time. The monks in the dark ages were all about self-flagellation and using pain and suffering to atone, but it was something the sinner would welcome, for it meant he was atoning. I can easily imagine an off-shoot in a more extreme culture becoming more extreme in nature. Run with it and see how it goes. If it doesn't work we don't have to do it again, right?

[Rex Apium]

I like the idea of consecration within specific cardinal sins.

But yea, that was sorta the idea. That pain and bloodletting is a way of atoning. You cleanse your body of your sin by sacrificing some of your blood. It was this sense of extremeness that I didn't want to hedge anyone into. It works for me and my character, but it doesn't always work for everyone.

I think at this point, for sake of not getting hung up on details, this particular form of the religion or way of worship would possibly work better as a specific region. Then I don't have to try and figure out why my character would be there doing the thing. It's easier if the region is already semi-involved.

[watchoutsamusishere]

I'm fine with it, except maybe the polytheism part. The culture at the time was heavily monotheistic. Aggressively so. In fact, there were many wars fought simply because the other side didn't believe in the rightness of that religion. I'm fine with your character believing in other gods, but I wouldn't be performing "heathen" rites on the dead or anything like that.

[watchoutsamusishere]

Not that I can think of.

[Rex Apium]

Okay.

So inspiration came to me lastnight/this morning/when I should have been sleeping and I've decided to post. So let's see where this goes.

[Panzer]

So I have interest in joining and have a idea on what I would like to do for this thread. I would like to do a mounted marksman something akin to the bow knights/ ranger class from the Fire Emblem series. The character would be focusing on his ranged capabilities but has a very loose melee capability (enough to use a sword in self-defense if need be.) Still hammering out the fine details of the character (looks, mannerisms, if he has a accent and such.) Going by what I have been told so far/ read about the church for this era I have developed a minor backstory with room to build upon it.

Orphaned at a young age Marius was forced to survive on his own, living off whatever he could from the land around him, even going so far at one point to join a bandit group out of desperation. It wasn't until the bandits were raided by a group of knights that the boy finally found some salvation, one of the knights now an old man took pity on the boy and spared his life but only if he would train hard and become a better man. The knight discovered the lad had a talent for archery as well as some skill on with horses and other animals. He tried to train the boy in the way of a true knight but found the lads talent for archery far outstripped his melee capabilities. After his 18th birthday the boy joined up with a battalion sanctioned by the Church to protect its holdings far and wide.

As I said I still have left room to build upon and am open for suggestions.

[Rex Apium]

I whipped this up real quick. Obviously this is ideal circumstances as far as appearance is concerned. (Cleanliness and whatnot). She also tends to keep her hair in tighter plaits, I just like drawing hair more than ears.

Not pictured here: Ritual scars, or the fact she's dressed like a peasant, complete with the simple wimple.

[watchoutsamusishere]

Looks good, Panzer. I have no problem with any of that.

And don't worry, Rex, this is before the plague, so people take regular baths.

I've done a brief right up on the political structure of the world. Here it goes.

Okay, so there has become a need to explain how the political system works. There are lots of ways it could work but I'm just going to make a mash-up right now that works.



So you have the king. The king owns everything. Everything belongs to the King. But the king cannot manage it all himself, so he imbues his trusted generals with their own rank, title, and some of his land. They become the dukes, earls, barons, counts. These lands, or fiefs, pass onto the sons of the current nobles unless otherwise stated.



There is still land for the sole use of the king, or land he personally controls.



The dukes, earls and barons, in turn, give their generals their own lands and titles, making them knights. Any rank of hereditary nobility can do this, if he has sufficient land. Or you can be made a knight by the king himself.



In order to be made a knight you can win it through valour on the battlefield or at tournaments, or you can be granted it and go through “the ceremony of the bath” which is where a prospective knight does his vigil and spends the night praying and whatnot. I'll do a write up of that later.



So the Feudal system dribbles down until you end up with a knight who only owns enough land for himself to live on.



The order of hereditary nobility is thus, which I handily stole from google:



King, Queen.

Prince, Princess.

Duke, Duchess.

Marquess, Marchioness.

Earl, Countess.

Viscount, Viscountess.

Baron, Baroness.

And in case you want to know how to address a noble historicalnovelists.tripod.com/peeraget.htm


The nobles contract commoners, or serfs to live and work on their land in exchange for military service. They earn a small wage, but are also allowed to run cattle (although they may be charged per head) and are also allowed to hunt, cut down wood, use the water, etcetera, etcetera.



That's basically how Feudalism works. But it gets more complicated because in this day there were no towns or cities and I want those, so we have to have an emerging merchant class.



So, if a noble has a big enough title and a nice enough site, people may wish to make a town or village or city on his land. With his express consent they may. Technically, the noble whose land they're on is in charge, but he's far too busy, so he may allow them the right of self-governance which he can technically revoke at any time.



So each town will have a Mayor, and a council who appoints him. They will run the city, and are usually from the guilds of merchants who want to keep power within their own ranks.



The noleman has representatives there, namely the sheriff who has a milita to keep the peace and raise obtain taxes for his lord from the mayor and the council.



I was going to have an almost republican feel, but I think if the population has grievances they go to to the magistrate who is likewise elected by the mayor and the council. They can petition the noble directly, or even the king if they want to.



But you can see if a town council becomes strong enough politically, the noble who owns the land may not have more authority than they do, and may end up subordinate to the council he is technically able to absolve.



Now, the church is separate but no less powerful. They are granted land from the king or nobles just like nobility, and are likewise charged with raising an army, but don't themselves have to fight. If you're not a noble, then your chance at education is through the church, and the church will allow advancement by ability, not rank, so you can advance to the rank of Abbot and be in charge of land just like a noble. Or you can advance further to bishop or archbishop.

So. The church and the state run side by side quite nicely. This is the golden age. Being a serf on the land of the church is awesome as they pay well and are lenient. Every city has at least one church in it, and many chapels. I think we'll leave the structure of each city individual and we'll do it as we encounter different cities and towns. Otherwise things get painful.



There is, however, a small provision. If a man is considered guilty of a crime, a mob forms to get him. This is the legal right of citizens to join the mob if they so chose. The suspected criminal can run to churches in certain cities where he will find safe harbour. I am not even making this up. If he gets there, the church will keep him safe and personally look into his case to make sure justice is done.



But as a rule, the person upon whose land a crime is done is the person ultimately responsible for the sentencing.



Common sentences are flogging, scourging, hanging, beheading. And the gibbet because why not.